Sneak Peak Video of the 
New Solar Hydrogen Home DVD
Coming SOON!

Download Over 100Meg of
FREE Hydrogen Video
Ride in the Famous H2 Geo
Click Here

re: sawdust?
28 apr 1998
elaine gallegos  wrote:

> wrote:

>: "the humanure handbook" by jenkins suggests making a composting toilet
>: with a 5 gallon plastic bucket under a plywood box with a standard seat
>: mounted on top.

or perhaps an adjustable-height tubular metal medical potty chair,
or the wooden antique equivalent...

>: a nearby 5 gallon bucket of sawdust (our local sawmill sells it for
>: $16 per pickuptruckload) decreases odor and increases c:n ratio:
>: use the toilet, then throw on a handful of sawdust, and empty
>: the bucket onto an outdoor compost pile every few days...

> i'm interested in that book.

chelsea green, 3rd printing, 1994, isbn 0-9644258-4-x, "198 pages,
indexed, with glossary, appendices, 63 tables and figures, 9 sidebars,
19 photographs, and a few bad jokes," $19 from (800) 639-4099 or
amazon on the web. reader feedback includes k. l. from indiana:
"i enjoyed the book immensely, but my mother is appalled. pleasing me
and irritating my mother--you score big in my two favorite categories."

>how nice that someone came up with a low tech composting toilet idea.

yes, much smaller and simpler and cheaper than clivus et al. 

>however: a complication- what do community codes have to say about this?
>i am rural, and would seriously consider do-it yourself sewage disposal.
>is it legal?

maybe. at least the indoor collection would seem to be legal. you might
ask joseph c. jenkins (p o box 607/grove city, pa 16127/(814) 786-8209)
about that. he writes:

  i knew of some local folks, amish, who had a baby at home a couple of
  years ago. babies born at home nowadays are no big deal; most of the
  amish have a midwife deliver their babies. all of my six children were
  born at home. however, a local county health worker decided to put a
  stop to this practice and _charged the young amish couple with child
  abuse for not having their baby born in a hospital._

  here we have an otherwise happy young couple who just had a beautiful
  baby, and some poor, deluded authority figure was actually telling them
  he'd have their baby taken away and put in a foster home if they didn't
  tell him who delivered the kid. this is a true story. the couple gave him
  the name of their midwife, a highly respected and eminently qualified
  woman who has now delivered over one thousand babies. she was promptly
  arrested. to make a long story short, the local magistrate threw the
  charge (practicing medicine without a license) out, the authorities
  actually appealed, then the higher court threw the charges out.

  what's that have to do with compost? composting humanure is like having
  babies where and how you want them, or educating your kids alternately. 
  it's behaving out of the mainstream of western society... different things
  can scare people when they don't know anything about them, especially
  those people who have oatmeal for brains and have somehow gravitated into
  a position of authority. whether it's legal or not often isn't the issue.
  the amish story is one of many in which the basic rights of humans have
  been subverted by the ignorance and the misuse of authority by others. 

  ideally, laws are made to protect society. laws requiring septic, waste,
  and sewage disposal systems are supposedly designed to protect the
  environment, the health of the citizens and the water table. this is
  all to be commended, and conscientiously carried out by those who produce
  _sewage_, a waste material. if you don't produce sewage, you have no need
  for a sewage treatment system, and laws pertaining to sewage treatment
  are not your concern. the number of people who produce compost instead 
  of sewage is so minimal that few, if any, laws have been enacted to
  regulate the practice. the thermophilic composting of humanure is not a
  threat to society, it produces no pollution, does not threaten the health
  of humans or contaminate the groundwater or environment. unfortunately,
  this fact is not understood by many people, and ignorance is a problem. 

  it would be hard to intelligently argue that a person who produces
  no sewage must have a costly sewage treatment system. what would
  they do with it? that would be like requiring someone who doesn't
  own a car to have a garage. and it would be very difficult to prove
  that composting humanure is threatening to society, especially given
  the facts as presented in this book. on the other hand, galileo, the
  astronomer, was arrested as a heretic and forced to renounce his theory
  that the earth revolves around the sun. sure, that was three hundred
  years ago. but sometimes i think the consciousness of our society as
  it relates to human manure is still back in the middle ages... 

  if you are concerned abouy your local laws, go to the library and
  see what you can find about regulations concerning compost. or also
  inquire at your county seat or state agency, as statues, ordinances,
  and regulations vary from locality to locality. where i live, septic
  system permits aren't required for new home construction, but the
  next county is two properties over, and people there are required to
  have septic system permits before they can build a new dwelling. this
  is largely due to the fact that the water table tends to be high in
  my area, and septic systems don't always work, so sand mounds are
  required by law for sewage disposal. now, if you don't want to dispose
  of your manure, but want to compost it instead (which will certainly
  keep it out of the water table, not to mention raise a few eyebrows at
  the local municipal office), you may have to stand up for your rights. 

  in pennsylvania, the state legislature has enacted legislation
  "encouraging the development of resources recovery as a means of
  managing solid waste, conserving resources, and supplying energy."
  under such legislation the term "disposal" is defined as "the
  incineration, dumping, spilling, leaking, or placing of solid waste
  into or on the land or water in a manner that the solid waste or
  a constituent of the solid waste enters the enviroment, is emitted
  into the air or is discharged to the waters of the commonwealth"
  (pennsylvania solid waste management act, title 35, chapter 29a).

  further legislation has been enacted in pennsylvania stating that
  "waste reduction and recycling are preferable to the processing or
  disposal of municipal waste," and further stating "pollution is the
  contamination of any air, water, land or other natural resources of
  this commonwelth that will create or is likely to create a public
  nuisance or to render the air, water, land, or other natural resources
  harmful, detrimental or injurous to public health, safety or welfare..."
  (pennsylvania municipal waste planning, recycling and waste reduction
  act (1988), title 53, chapter 17a). in view of the fact that the
  thermophilic composting of humanure involves recovering a resource,
  requires no disposal of waste, and creates no environmental pollution,
  it is unlikely that anyone who _conscientously_ engages in such an
  activity would be successfully convicted of criminal activity... 

  what about gray water? you're still producing gray water and therefore 
  may still need a septic system or something of the sort as required
  by law, you may wonder. maybe, maybe not. gray water is relatively easy
  to deal with. a biological treatment system such as an artificial wetland,
  algae pond, or heck, a patch of woods can effectively absorb gray water,
  especially if you have sense enough to keep toxic materials and fecal
  material out of your drains. however, now we're getting beyond the scope 
  of this book. low-impact gray water treatment systems could involve
  another whole publication...

it looks like gray water may be more of a legal problem, requiring uv or
chlorine or ozone or thermal disinfection, which might not be a big deal,
with an efficient counterflow heat exchanger. 

> a good, efficient working compost heap continues "cooking" even in cold 
>weather. this is an improvement over regular composting toilets which 
>must be kept at least in the 60 degree range in order to work.

sure. jenkins suggests thermophilic composting, and says "according
to the literature, a temperature of 122 f for a period of 24 hours is
sufficient to kill all of the human pathogens potentially in humanure...
a lower temperature will take longer to kill pathogens (a temperature
of 115 f may take nearly a week to kill pathogens completely) a higher
temperature may take only minutes... some thermophilic bacteria have
been found at temperatures as high as 89 c (192 f)..." he supports
these statements with lots of tables and references.

ensuring that every part of a composting pile receives that treatment would
be a big step towards making the process legal. you might let the local
authorities look at your $50 rs-232 temperature monitor every 3 months.

how about also heating water for showers? an insulated 55 gallon plastic
drum or rubber-lined plywood box or two in the basement with no holes in
the bottom, with a small blower and condensing air-air heat exchanger to
supply air, exhausted to outdoors, and a humidistat and solenoid valve
and overhead sprinkler to supply water, and some sort of heat exchanger,
with an insulated tank above? compost has about the same fuel value as
wood, from 14.2 to 28.5 kilojoules (kj) per gram of material or 6-12k
btu/lb, vs. softwoods at 19.2 mj/kg and hardwoods at 18.2 mj/kg. jenkins
says 100 pounds of human body weight will produce approximately 3 gallons
or 0.4 cubic feet of compost per week (12 pounds?) including the sawdust.

under ideal conditions (55-60 degrees c, >15% o2, 45-55% h2o) the heat
production rate may be about 10k btu/(3 monthsx30daysx24hours)-lb = 5
btu/hr-lb, so a 50k btu/day "compost water heater" might require 400 lb
of compost at 30 lb/ft^3 (50% h2o), ie 14 ft^3, ie a 2.4 foot cube, or
a 4' high by 2' diameter cylinder digesting 5 pounds of humanure daily
from 3 100 pound humans.

> another improvement over composting toilet is the use of sawdust. they 
>normally call for the use of peat moss, a non-renewable resource.

leaves are also renewable, but they may compost more slowly, requiring
a larger composter... 


I got ALL of these 85 Solar Panels for FREE and so can you.  Its in our Ebook

Site Meter